Great story, that's what it's all about. Had a chance to play at my church's candlelight Christmas Eve service recently. Had a harp in my pocket as always, so when the Pastor asked me, I did "It Came Upon A Midnight Clear" and "Silent Night". About 40 people all holding candles watching and listening while I played...... what an honor that was. Great hearing back from you.
Leon, I played with a trumput player like that one time. It was at a small rural Church in Ohio. 25 degrees below zero. They had called off service but He and I didn't get the memo. When I came up the steps I could hear "Oh when the Saints", He played softer when I came in, but did'nt stop. I joined in with straight harp in G. We traded solo,s. He was much better than me and was able to make us both sound good. Thats one of the reasons I still play the harmonica. Michael
Just actually saw this post for the first time. I don't have any experience playing with a band.... but my Mom is a piano player and if you have never played along with the piano, I'm here to tell you, it's great. (it helps if the pianist is really good, my mom has earned a pretty good living at it) I'll start playing a song, basically any song, and she will come in and join me. She can cover a lot of shortcomings on my end, and do some nice fills while I catch up. The first time we played together, it was in front of my wife and son, and let me tell you, it was almost spiritual. Try it if you get a chance.
Basically, you are not going to get good music with 12 people on stage, though it will be fun until you can't hear yourself any longer. But no sweat. Use a big crazy disorganized jamas a place to meet musucians and get used to playing, and seek out a smaller ensemble.
onenoteblues, First of all, let me thank you for time you spent on your reply and your willingness to pass on what you have learned. When I posted my comment I was well aware I was opening myself up to ridicule for what I "shoud have Known". My objective is to improve, so if I have to ask some dumb questions to make that happen then thats what I'll do. I read your reply 3 time (so far) and made notes. I'm sure this is one of those things I'll look back on and laugh about. In time. Thanks for your help Michael
Hi Michael: It sounds like your Jam was suffering from "T.F.L." which is short for "Too Freakin' Loud". It's always easy to criticize something after it's over, but the main thing is to learn from it. And it's good you're asking now is: what can you do next time (and for some friendly tips for next time) and learn from it.
Here is what you can do next time:
1. Look around the Room and see who is doing the Sound. 2. Ask whoever is in charge of Sound or whoever is on the Sound Board to turn it down. 3. Ask the guitar player #1, #2 or #3 to turn their amps down. If you're playing amplified blues, instead of "rock" or "pop" you should to be able to hear it comfortable without having the fillings in your teeth rattled out by the bass player, guitar player or drummer.
Fortunately, I've been in some fun, informal Jams where there were at least 8 or 10 guitar players, 2 bass players and at least 3 drummers in the room - and they were organized.
Everyone took turns and when someone got tired and wanted to take a break, someone would jump in and start playing.
I spent a New Years Eve doing this where it was also a Potluck too! And it was fun! The clock turning midnight seemed almost incidental. We broke up at 2 a.m.!
The guy/leader in charge told me ahead of time - he was going to play an impromptu blues song just before midnight called and since I was the only harmonica player in the room, it was time to sing, wail and make some cat moans on my harp!
No one was playing over each other. None of those playing guitar were competing with each other in terms of volume either (which causes the classic sonic train wreck), and causes the bass player to crank his volume and thus causes the drummer to play extra loud.
Alot of the old school Pros I used to watch, who played from the Big Band era , Jazz and Rock used to turn their volume down (which is "dynamics") on their guitars, horns, keys or percussion when someone was either taking a solo or singing while still keeping time (rhythm).
I've seen guitar players move their pinky to turn their volume knob down a notch! When I saw that, I thought that was being cool and considerate.
The cool thing that was happening on this New Year's Eve Jam - we had different levels there: beginners, beginners sub-par, intermediates and advanced. No one got offended if they made a mistake and again, no one was playing over each other. (We even had 2 horn players there too!)
Two months ago, I was playing with a rock drummer who was a good time keeper and knew lots of different songs/song styles but he was too loud! (That's why drummers have mics and don't have to play so hard. The guy at the Sound Board can raise or lower the volume if they have to.)
This was just for fun in a rehearsal room and the guy I was teaching guitar couldn't hear ourselves. I signaled for him to use "dynamics" and do the same job but not hit so hard. He did and we had a more fun, productive jam that day!
So having a leader in charge give hand signals before you play is a plus too! It makes you sound more professional and not like 3rd Grade Guitar Recital where people are playing out of tune, out of synch and too loud!
************************************************************************* Another thing I've seen is when people playing instruments get off of the tempo and start speeding up while their taking a solo which causes another classic Musical train wreck onstage, which is speeding up!
I saw this when someone begins speeding up during a slow walking blues song! One guy sped up and caused a chain reaction of speeding up!
Fortunately, the leader stopped it and he looked like Lawrence Welk standing in front of everyone and gave the count! (I'm sure if John Bonham and Lawrence Welk were the in the audience! They would have been laughing! LoL!)
No one's feelings got hurt and what got the Leader's attention - was when people onstage playing either stopped singing and/or playing their instruments started laughing!
I started laughing too because it sounded too much like the Ramones playing Little Walter at a 100 miles an hour! It started to sound like cartoon music!
************************************************************************* What I walked away learning that day, was seeing how someone took charge of this New Year's Eve Party at the right moments and wasn't just bossing people around or telling them how to play their instruments either! LoL!
He took charge when he had to. I also saw a pad of legal paper circulating around the room asking for Requests. So, if someone wanted to hear something like "Louie Louie", "Wooly Bully" or their favorite song we'd play it (if we knew it).
************************************************************************* Michael what you might want to start doing now is getting your foot tapping to the beat and listen to the drummer, bass player and guitar players playing the rhythm. That way, when it comes time to solo or improvise, you're not playing something 4X as fast.
(John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin used to stand on the right side so he could see and make visual cues to the drummer. Pete Townsend of the Who used to stamp his feet like a Flamenco dancer to tell "Moon the Loon" what kind of beat to play/improvise on top of. He said this made them look well rehearsed onstage when they admittedly weren't! The audience never knew they just thought it was part of the show and Townsend being expressive!)
You might want to carry around a small notepad with you in your shirt pocket too. After it's over, you might want to write down what went right, what you goofed on and what could have helped the overall picture whether it was the bass player, drummer or guy on the Sound Board.
The best thing when it start sounding "T.F.L." is to stop and ask everyone to turn it down.
I got my point across a few years ago, when I was walking up the aisle while the rest of the band was going through a few songs. The guy in charge on the floor and Sound Board asked me, "Is it too loud!?!" practically shouting to me.
I looked at my watch and said, "No! It's 3 o'clock!" After I said that he laughed and began to tell people to turn it down and walked over to the sound board to fix it.
The worst thing to see onstage, after you've paid good money to see a show/concert, where the musicians are literally competing with each other with their volume. Especially when it comes time for them to take a solo!
I hate to see a percussion moving his arms like an octopus and not hearing him play because it's "T.F.L.". The opposite of this is hearing the "ping" the Ride Cymbal when the drummer is playing and keeping time.
The idea here is to compliment and not compete with each other onstage, unless that's your intent. (I've seen this too, when guitar players were being hostile and competitive when another guitar player was asked to come onstage unexpectedly - and they weren't told about it ahead of time.)
But, just chugging chords can get some good compliments directed your way by a guitar player who is taking a solo.
Michael, you might want to start watching and noticing those things when you're sitting in the audience or onstage and look at how they position the monitors and where they've got 'em.
You might even want to start asking a keyboard player, bass player or Sound Guy where he puts his monitors, where they like to stand in relation to the drummer. Start asking guys who do Sound at church, nightclubs (if they'll let you), Civic Club Meetings, etc.
The idea here is to start learning this now, so when you do take the stage you won't perpetuate the bad reputation harp players get out there.
Looking, sounding and being professional helps even when you're out there just playing for fun - and by doing that, helps you get invited back.
Having a sense of humor when things go wrong doesn't hurt either, especially when you're not being sarcastic or just trying to blantantly trying to put someone down either.
Well, I hope you get back on that horse and keep trying. That's what this format is all about. I've made my share of mistakes too. So join the club and keep on trying, keep on harpin'! (And don't become a flamenco dancer either in the process! LoL! That's brilliant. Who would have thought of such a thing onstage?)
What you want to ask yourself is: what kind of effect are you going for? Most blues has dynamics and goes down to whisper when they want to make a point. Rock plays loud for a reason too.
Sometimes, knowing what kind of effect you're going for helps too. Look at the great Chicago Bluemen on Harp who went for distortion (before Rock 'n Roll did) which was to honk and wail like a Sax. No wonder it was called the "Mississippi Saxophone".
The cool thing about harmonica is it's gotta a wider range like a vocal instrument (a singer) than it's given credit. Take a listen at Sonny Terry's work (and other greats too) with his whoops, howls, growls too!
The idea here is to also express your own personality, tones and style on your instrument - but you can't do it if you can't hear yourself doing it! LoL!
I just finished playing with a band for the first time. There were twelve of us in all, counting vocals and insterments. We played eight or nine songs in two sets. I knew most of the songs real well but have never been more frustrated. With twelve musicians, five monitors and and four speakers, I could not hear what I was playing. It's one thing to play a lick, a riff or the melody and miss a note. you make adjustments as best you can and move on. It's another thing altogether to not have feedback from my own ears. Thank God the key is stamped on the harp. Another observation,(because I'm new at this) is that when you play with a band, the leader and band literally set the tempo. I played a short solo that was about four times as fast as what I thought sounded right. But I did keep tempo. I'm sure thats the main thing. Any tips on playing well with others or experiences you have had, and learned from would be very helpfull. Michael
