I once read a book called "The memory book" by Jerry Lucas and Harry Lorain. They stated that ALL memory is by association. We remember things that we link to things we already know. Or want to remember. The wilder and the more outlandish the associations, the better we remember. They developed a memory system based on this. Great book. Not sure of the relationship between this system and muscle memory or if there is one as it relates to learning a new song. It would seem that this is demonstrated, to some extent, by my Mexican friend that recalled the words to El Ray, only when his fingers were in position for that part of the song.
It's good to look for the up-side of any situation.
Let's say I'm frustrated with the "woodshed" phase of learning a new song and it takes me three weeks to nail it. Then there is the "gifted" player that has it down after one or two times.
At the end of three weeks we both know the song. What I lack in raw talent can be overcome with perseverance. It's like that for any of us.
You've asked a lot of questions, and it took me a day to formulate answers.
1. If I need a metronome, I look at a wall clock or wrist watch, then do some math. EXAMPLE: If I want 60 pulses (foot taps) per minute, the clock's second hand does that. If I want 120 pulses per minute, I double the rate of the second hand (2 foot taps per second), If I want 90 pulses per minute, I do 3 pulses per 2 foot taps, etc. That's if the tempo is marked in numbers.
If the tempo marking on the paper is a word (Allegro, Maestoso, Largo, Presto, Fast, Slow, etc.), I have the general area of the tempo, then start there.
2. Metronomes are great tools for practicing techniques, scales and arpeggios, but aren't useful while playing tunes, in practice or in performance.
Musicians normally go in and out of tempo in performance, either by design or by accident. As a drummer, it's my responsibility to keep the band or orchestra in time, or close to it.
But there are times when I must push the tempo (faster), and sometimes when I need to drag the tempo (slower). This is to regulate the pulse when the other musicians drift in and out too much.
In some cases, there are gradual or abrupt tempo changes. The gradual ones are more difficult to control than the abrupt ones, but the drummer must push or drag the tempo if the temo is abrupt.
3. I'm mostly a first-call substitute player in the bands and orchestras, and the music director-bass and chord harp player in the harmonica band.
The only similarity among the bands and orchestras in which I play is that they all use written music.
In the symphonies in which I play, original compositions are used mainly, with arrangements seldom. In the bands, arrangements are used mainly, and originals seldom.
4. When playing in any musical group, we must learn co-operation, and have an agreeable personality. A musical group is a team, with a leader.
We should not give our opinions unless asked by the leader. We should never criticize a player, let the leader handle corrections and suggestions. We should give help only when asked by the leader. We should ask the leader questions when we don't understand something.
5. The symphony musicians enjoy my harmonica (and percussion) playing as much as I do. It's a rare ocassion when a symphony player hears a harmonica. It's not normally used with symphonies, but there are many cases where a harmonica is used with a symphony.
6. The only musician I've ever gotten a hard time from in rehearsal or performance was a conductor. He yelled at me and shook his fist at me. He was joking, and everyone laughed.
I work with a Mexican guy that plays in a Mariachi band. He was telling me about a popular Spanish song called El Ray. When I asked him what the lyrics were he said "let me think" Then he did something I found interesting.
He moved his fingers on the fret board (no guitar present!/air guitar) and then would pause and tell me the words, then play some more, then tell me more lyrics. He was linking his finger position with the words to the song. The same way we were talking about linking lyrics to notes on the harp. Blues and Mariachi, what a combination! Looks like our woodsheds are the same.
As a percussionist of 40 years, do you use a metronome when you practice or is tempo hard wired into your DNA?
What are the similarities between the symphony and the band you play in? I know there vast differences, but in both, you work out arrangements, practice then deliver the final product. What elements are the same?
What have you learned from playing with others that you would care to pass along to those of us that have not had that much experience at it?
And lastly, you must admit, "symphony" and "harmonica" are not terms that are often used together. Do or have any of your symphony Bros. given you a hard time about the harmonica?
I'm a pro percussioniost (40 years) and amateur harmonica player (38 years). For fun, I like to tackle the unknown, explore, invent. I play most percussion instruments, and have studied and forgotten all of the other instruments of a symphony.
I play all harmonica types except the Hohner Harmonetta, an antique button harmonica.
Each harmonica type (bass, chord, diatonic, slide chromatic, no-slide chromatic, tremolo, octave, mini-harp) has it's own set of rules, and limits, and is effective in some ways, and ineffective in other ways.
I like to experiment for fun. I'm slowly learning to customize and repair harmonicas. That's fun, too, but it can be expensive.
I work some of that into my playing and practicing, but typically not in a structured way. Perhaps it should be more structured. I know I don't play at or near the same level as you do. I struggle with a balance between sessions that are fun and educational.
One of my favorite things to have fun with is to play a scale or something to the metronome. Then keep increasing the speed of the metronome until it's impossibly too fast. usually ends in me laughing out loud.
What kinds of things do you have fun with? At your level of play, what do you still enjoy about the harp? Are there any elements of playing that got you started, that you still enjoy? Has that evolved with your proficiency?
The toughest part of my practicing is the learning of new techniques, or trying to improve the techniques that I already know.
Learning a new song (a song that's new to me) is fun, and I do it as a reward to myself after I've worked on some important concept.
The techniques I'd like to be better at include bending & overblowing, tongue blocking and the pucker (I play mostly U-block), scales & arpeggios, playing octaves, vibrati and improvising.
It would seem the tough part is in the woodshed. Forming the muscle memory. As ones skill develops and improves does this get easier? As I improve, I tend to work on more difficult songs. not always, some really fun songs are simple ones. Over all, does the woodshed get easier? Or is that the price of admission? Dutch, John or any others. What is it like for you?
If I'm having trouble remembering a song that I haven't played in a long time. I usually recall the title first. Then I link that to the first note or two. The first note or two brings an almost total recall of the rest of the song. All of this linking must be forming when I first learn the song. In the woodshed phase. Once these muscle memory links are formed they seem to be embedded rather well.
Dutch, Good stuff. I was thinking about what John said:
"That's why it's easier to learn music with the words than with tablature or traditional music notation. Words have rhythms (telephone, ham.burger, mississippi, etc), and inflections (melodies, like, "hi, how are you?"). We already know rhythms and melodies from our spoken languages."
Knowing or finding the lyrics to a song serves another important function. It helps us understand what the writer was feeling when they wrote the piece. Being able to identify with what you are playing and impart that emotion into the song is the difference between a "MIDI" file and a song that brings a tear to your eye or causes you to stomp your foot.
It may be safe to say that many great songs could stand alone as poetry if the music was removed.
I also break the song up into little pieces, but I keep (mostly) the order in tact. This way it is: a) easier to remember everything (for me anyway, because it's all connected) b) I can play along with the original song more and more which makes it more "rewarding" and c) It easier to check your progress.....
Dutch, Your right, if it aint fun... The thing that got me started on DANNY BOY was an arrangement suggested by Doug. (guitar player I started working with) He starts out with Amazing Grace and ends the first verse with a short Irish sounding intro that leads into a harp solo of Danny Boy. Then he finishes with two more verses of Amazing grace.
I don't know that I would have chosen to learn this song otherwise. I like the song, it's just not one I had thought about learning. That could be one of the reasons it's taking me a while to get it.
I have most of the components down pretty well now. When I was learning it and got frustrated with some part, I jumped to another part within the song. Now that I have it all pretty well. I'm working on getting it all in the right order. With the repeat.
Been playing with the idea of some octaves and chords on the lower notes that adds a hint of bagpipe(ish) flair. It has to be very subtle and artfully done or it sound Corny. If I can't get that worked out right I'll just play it sweet and clear the way it was written. If I had jumped to another song or some riff's when I got frustrated I wouldn't be going back now and relearning the right order. Note to self, next time.....
That's it, mix it up with other stuff, doing bends (not practicing, just doing them, whether they're ok or not) play along with your favourites, try to make "your own" riff by building on a riff you already know (not necessarily adding notes, just varying the timing can result in great new riffs) THEN go back to whatever you we're struggling with...you'll suprise yourself
Just remember... IF it ain't fun, it ain't worth doing it.....
"Danny Boy" has my head smokin. I guess because I have been working mostly on hard core, foot stompin, 12 bar blues. Danny boy is at the other end of the spectrum.
My Son is in the Marines. He said they told him in boot camp, that you must repeat an action, I think 3000 times before it's second nature. Not sure about the exact number. But was in the thousands.
Some songs I can work on for a day or two and pretty much "get it". Others are like pulling a boxcar with my teeth. Whats up with that? Neural links or pathways forming?
When I get frustrated it seems to help when I play two or three songs that I do know well. Then go back to the one I'm learning.
Another thing I do when I am learning a new song ( and I don't know if this is right or wrong) is this; if the piece has bends, I leave those out. The bends I mean. I play the note, but I don't spend too much time on the bends. The most imporntant and first thing I must do is get the sequence of each note in the right order. Then the rythem and cadance slowly starts to seep in as I develop it further. once I'm at that point hitting the right bend almost happens by itself. This whole process takes place very slow.
In many ways learning a new song is like learning to play the harp all over again. this frustration, challange and ultimate victory is a big part of what I love about playing the harmonica. Come to think of it it may be the same thing my Wife and Daughter hate. They hear me go through this process with every song I know. Like I said I'm working on DANNY BOY now. By the time I get it the way I think it should be, I may well have played it 100 times or more. Then I'll say some thing stupid like "Hey, listen to this"
You'r right. I did'nt realize it till I saw it spelled out, but I peg or link the words with the notes they match up with. Like the part in the Star Spangled Banner, "yea-eet wave". I can hear those notes in my head when I say that phrase. I Find it hard to think of those notes without linking them to the phrase.
I'm working on DANNY BOY right now. First position. I find myself following the same pattern each time I learn a new song. I guess it's what has worked for me in the past.
It is still frustrating, learning a new one I mean. Seeing the words, hearing the song in my head and then translating that into music. It's work. I have to like a song to put in the time and effort it takes. I think I was looking for an easy out when I posted this topic. Or at the very least wondering if there was a better way. I think the bottom line is, even after you do all the research, it's still work.
The first language that humans learn is the spoken (audio ) language. Young children listen and imitate their parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and learn to communicate verbally early in their development stages.
We study the written language of our country after we have a working spoken language.
That's why it's easier to learn music with the words than with tablature or traditional music notation. Words have rhythms (telephone, ham.burger, mississippi, etc), and inflections (melodies, like, "hi, how are you?"). We already know rhythms and melodies from our spoken languages.
In Japan, young people are taught with the Suzuki Method (not related to Suzuki harmonicas) for music study (mainly violin students). Students as young as 4 -5 years old can learn violin pieces well.
The Suzuki Method is an ear training method, where the students learn by listening and imitation, rather than by reading notes off a page. They study written music later, after they have developed a strong audio perception. A similar system, the Orff system, is used in Germany.
The idea of ear training as an instructional tool is used in many countries. In the USA, most harmonica players, for lack of a teacher nearby, learn by listening and imitation of live performers or recordings, then some of these students proceed to study the written music languages (tab or traditional).
The present tablature systems for harmonica (there must be at least a dozen different tab systems for harmonicas) are difficult for me. I learn new music mostly by listening and imitation, then traditional notation, then tablature. I often use tablature to re-inforce the traditional music notation.
" I tend to listen to the song first, from as many differant artist as I can. I try to get the origonal version if I can find it. I listen untill I have it memorized, I know it by heart. Knowing the lyrics seems to help a great deal for some reason. even if I never intend to sing it. I do not understand why that is."
I think its easier to figure out where you are in a song and what notes you are looking for if you know the words.....its a lot easier to play if you know what you are looking for...
"The next phase is in two parts: if I dont have the tab for the song I start blowing and drawing till I find a section of the piece that is right. Then I work forward or back from there, depending on the location of the "right" part."
Me too...
"If I have the Tab, I learn best by taking small bites and adding to that rather than playing the piece all the way through ( many times) and trying to memorize it."
Ditto....
"I don't have a chance to talk to many others about how they learn new songs. This seem to be the method that works best for me."
Same for me....I also use something to slow down the bits & pieces I want to learn and once I've "got it" I try to speed things up.... (I use a Tascam Voice trainer, but don't be fooled by the name, cause its great for harp....and an Olympus voice recorder, which , if you push the play button twice, slows down 50% without changing the pitch....) Other people use a software called "Amazing SlowDowner" I believe...it supposed to be good....
I would be intrested to hear what process other harp players go through when learning a new song. I know we all learn differantly but there may be some similarities.
I tend to listen to the song first, from as many differant artist as I can. I try to get the origonal version if I can find it. I listen untill I have it memorized, I know it by heart. Knowing the lyrics seems to help a great deal for some reason. even if I never intend to sing it. I do not understand why that is.
The next phase is in two parts: if I dont have the tab for the song I start blowing and drawing till I find a section of the piece that is right. Then I work forward or back from there, depending on the location of the "right" part.
If I have the Tab, I learn best by taking small bites and adding to that rather than playing the piece all the way through ( many times) and trying to memorize it.
I don't have a chance to talk to many others about how they learn new songs. This seem to be the method that works best for me.
